Twitter's Terms Of Service - For Show or For Real
Like most people, I'm sure when you register for an online service you check their Terms of Service (TOS) agreement before you join. I do, it's just common sense to check things out. We want to make sure that we agree with their Terms and if we don't we don't register, sign-up or join. As a woman online I take security pretty seriously and think you should too. As a techie I demand that the sites I frequent take their TOS agreements and security pretty damn seriously too. You should demand the same.
This is an ongoing conversation I've been having on Twitter. WiredPig blogged about his experience with Twitter while reporting a TOS violation here. Iin his post he referenced an anonymous victim. That was me. It's a definate must read.
Here's the problem though, twitter has a TOS that states:
and
However, they also state further down the list:
Isn't that a contradiction? They say there are the rules and if you break them it will result in termination but only maybe since we have no obligation to do it. What's wrong with this picture?
Twitter Feed Regarding Twitter's TOS
Dayngr *New blog post up* on Twitter's TOS. Your opinions matter. Please stop by & add your comments at http://tinyurl.com/5hzy7w 7 minutes ago from twhirl
Dayngr Last night many of you were following along with me discussing Twitter's TOS. I'm addressing our concerns in a letter to twtter execs now.
Dayngr @zaphodd No doubt - but when given the oppty to resolve, why didn't twitter steup and resolve it with say, a warning or click of the mouse? about 21 hours ago from twhirl in reply to zaphodd
Dayngr @SeanMarler Better? http://tinyurl.com/5hzy7w about 21 hours ago from twhirl in reply to SeanMarler
Dayngr @zaphodd Providing taking the flack isn't going to screw you with your future investors about 21 hours ago from twhirl in reply to zaphodd
Dayngr @SeanMarler It's actually gone beyond harassment and into libel and yes, there are legal ramifications there but I;d like twitter to step up about 21 hours ago from twhirl in reply to SeanMarler
Dayngr @zaphodd http://twitter.com/Dayngr/statuses/800077572 about 21 hours ago from im in reply to zaphodd
Dayngr @SeanMarler If you read my archives you'll see I actually love twitter and want to see it become great rather than just good about 21 hours ago from im in reply to SeanMarler
Dayngr @SeanMarler I'm not crusading against twitter at all. I'm looking for them to enforce their TOS since it is THEIR TOS. about 21 hours ago from im in reply to SeanMarler
Dayngr @Military_Mama What say you on Twitter's refusal to enforce TOS? http://tinyurl.com/5hzy7w about 21 hours ago from twhirl in reply to Military_Mama
Dayngr So I'm guessing that means that @FredWilson is a twitter investor. I wonder if he cares about twitter's TOS issues about 21 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @Jack @Biz @Ev and the rest of the twitter crew really need to get involved and listen to their users regarding TOS issues. about 21 hours ago from web in reply to jack
Dayngr @QueenofSpain Agreed! Twitter needs to enforce TOS or change it. It would be in their best interest to change. It's just good cust. service about 21 hours ago from web in reply to QueenofSpain
Dayngr @gwfrink3 Glad to hear that! about 21 hours ago from web in reply to gwfrink3
Dayngr @QueenOfSpain What say you on Twitter's refusal to enforce TOS? http://tinyurl.com/5hzy7w about 21 hours ago from im in reply to QueenofSpain
Dayngr @Scobleizer Of course TOS abusers will disagree. If twitter is going to have a TOS they should abide by it and enforce it or do away with it about 22 hours ago from twhirl in reply to Scobleizer
Dayngr Good to know I'm not alone in that thought about 22 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @Dayngr Twitter should delete abusive accounts. (via @Scobleizer) about 22 hours ago from twhirl in reply to Dayngr
Dayngr @Dayngr is asking what I think about Twitter's refusal to abide by its own TOS: http://tinyurl.com/5hzy7w I think it sucks. via @Scobleizer about 22 hours ago from twhirl in reply to Dayngr
Dayngr @Scobleizer What say you on Twitter's refusal to enforce TOS? http://tinyurl.com/5hzy7w about 22 hours ago from twhirl in reply to Scobleizer
Dayngr @CoachDeb You may want to know about this then too: http://tinyurl.com/5hzy7w about 22 hours ago from twhirl in reply to CoachDeb
Dayngr @SilverNeurotic Possibly but that is no excuse not to take action when something is brought to their attention. about 22 hours ago from im in reply to SilverNeurotic
Dayngr Let’s be the change! about 22 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @evansdave said “That’s the power of the collecitve. A single voice with persistence creates the pressure that drives change… about 22 hours ago from twhirl in reply to evansdave
Dayngr I’ll be blogging about the flaws in Twitter’s TOS issues and offering suggestions and opportunities for improvement. about 22 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr One more thing I’d like to add, Twitter has the potential to be great as opposed to good. about 22 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @WiredPig I replied to your post on Twitter's TOS policy: http://snurl.com/26f1j about 22 hours ago from twhirl in reply to WiredPig
Dayngr If you're following my conversation regarding twitter's TOS & their refusal to enforce their TOS read this post: http://snurl.com/26f1j about 22 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @WiredPig Excellent post on tonight's topic regarding Twitters Terms of Service and their lack of enfrocement! http://snurl.com/26f1j about 22 hours ago from twhirl in reply to WiredPig
Dayngr Here are some details that you will want to read: http://tinyurl.com/5hzy7w about 22 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr That's the power of the collecitve. A single voice w/persistence creates pressure that drives change. Twitter facilates that. via @evansdave about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @Ladanea The answer to what we should do as a community is speak up. We should tweet about it, blog about it & contact twitter about it. about 23 hours ago from web in reply to Ladanea
Dayngr If you are using twitter for business & you're encouraging your clients to do the same you should pay attention and get involved too. about 23 hours ago from web
Dayngr @evansdave You are correct, often failure to act does equal liability. Especially when they've been notified. about 23 hours ago from web in reply to evansdave
Dayngr @evansdave Thanks. I think this issue really matters as well and I'd like to see more people reaching out to twitter with their suggestions about 23 hours ago from web in reply to evansdave
Dayngr @lizwebpage Not cynical at all. Twitter may potentially be setting themselves up for the worst case scenario situation. about 23 hours ago from web in reply to lizwebpage
Dayngr @lizwebpage I love twitter but I'm not about to die to prove my point here, lol about 23 hours ago from im in reply to lizwebpage
Dayngr @Tmcamp Exactly! Not talking about litigious response. Talking about a marketing backlash that cripples their brand. Bad for PR, Bad for ... ... about 23 hours ago from im in reply to tmcamp
Dayngr @TMCamp I agree! The idea of a "self policing" community is fine, but help by backing up your *own* policies, Twitter. about 23 hours ago from im in reply to tmcamp
Dayngr These kinds of situations are community-killers, after all. A few bad experiences, and people go away for good. (via @tmcamp) about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @TMCamp a dangerous spot indeed about 23 hours ago from im in reply to tmcamp
Dayngr ...is Twitter immune to liability if a threat is made and they do nothing? I think that's a dangerous spot to occupy. These... (via @tmcamp) about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr of meaningful response, given the situation. If Napster was liable to record companies for people abusing the service, then.. (via @tmcamp) about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @TMCAMP says Not a lady, but I think you're asking all the right questions. Frankly, I'm surprised that Twitter hasn't responded w/any kind about 23 hours ago from twhirl in reply to tmcamp
Dayngr @realityrunner That isn't acceptable. Harassment, stalking, abuse, libel and or defamation is not spam. Shouldn't be treated as such either about 23 hours ago from twhirl in reply to realityrunner
Dayngr I'm not trying to get twitter shut down or dragged into court, just simply stating that twitter should enforce their TOS about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @Ladanea Why is that acceptable to us as users? Why do we allow services to get away with NOT standing behind their agreements? about 23 hours ago from twhirl in reply to Ladanea
Dayngr Seriously, what has to happen before a socnet site takes harassment seriously? A death threat? Why does it have to escalate to that? Ladies? about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr Are you still with me or did you lose interest already? about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @mikeneumann Not just that my friend, the twitter team doesn't seem to even care about harassmnt. That's offensive as a techie & as a woman. about 23 hours ago from twhirl in reply to mikeneumann
Dayngr Here's where I got my twitter stats. hat tip to TechCrunch: http://snurl.com/26evq about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr Note: There's NO place to report a TOS violation listed & if you go to help it isn't an option listed there either. Just letting you know. about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr Twitter's Terms of Service (TOS) http://snurl.com/26ev2 Take a look @ # 4 under Basic Terms then # 4 under General Conditions. about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @jimCTC Those are huge numbers. Those are active only, in total the estimated # of twitter users is at 1+ million posting 3 mil msgs per day about 23 hours ago from twhirl in reply to jimCTC
Dayngr @goaliegirl HI! about 23 hours ago from twhirl in reply to goaliegirl
Dayngr @Cambeck Agreed! Twitter should either change TOS or enforce it. Just tell it like it is, it's a free for all out here. about 23 hours ago from twhirl in reply to cambeck
Dayngr @cambeck I was hoping twitter would step up and do the right thing. Since I am a user and heavily promote them about 23 hours ago from twhirl in reply to cambeck
Dayngr @cambeck There is no doubt that I can get local and federal authorities involved as well as a legal team but ... about 23 hours ago from twhirl in reply to cambeck
Dayngr Twitter has a total of 200,000 active users per week that are not being protected under the TOS they agreed to. That is MAJOR. about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr As twitter users Is it too much to ask for twitter to stand behind their TOS & investigate & enforce it? Not too much to ask. Or is it? about 23 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr @abiteofsanity They have to stand by their TOS about 23 hours ago from im in reply to abiteofsanity
Dayngr @abiteofsanity Again, that is a twitter issue though that they should work out. We can't do anything about if they are fair. They have t ... ... about 23 hours ago from im in reply to abiteofsanity
Dayngr @aruni I'm talking from twitter's stance more so than outside. Of course a lawyer can get involved in all cases of harassment, abuse etc about 24 hours ago from twhirl in reply to aruni
Dayngr I'm just saying ... about 24 hours ago from im
Dayngr Did you ever notice there is NO place to report TOS violations on twitter? about 24 hours ago from im
Dayngr @tmcamp Exactly. Don't put it all on the victim. about 24 hours ago from im in reply to tmcamp
Dayngr @abiteofsanity Please dont get me started on logic. That is a whole other topic. about 24 hours ago from im in reply to abiteofsanity
Dayngr @aruni Absolutely. As users the least we deserve is to have the terms of service enforce by those who put it in place about 24 hours ago from im in reply to aruni
Dayngr @gwfrink3 I say, police the park better about 24 hours ago from twhirl in reply to gwfrink3
Dayngr @gwfrink3 No, blocking isn't enough. That's like saying - if you don't want to be mugged don't visit the park after dark. about 24 hours ago from twhirl in reply to gwfrink3
Dayngr @zemote The issue is that twitter has a terms of service agreement that we are supposed to adhere to but if it's violated they don't enforce about 24 hours ago from twhirl in reply to zemote
Dayngr @Aruni Or if they libeled your company - Should the companies we register with stand behind their TOS agreements? about 24 hours ago from im in reply to aruni
Dayngr @Aruni That's smart but the problem lies in content. Imagine if someone started stalking you on twitter. Would you want twitter to step in? about 24 hours ago from im in reply to aruni
Dayngr I'd hate to see Twitter end up like MySpace with numerous legal battles and bad publicity with stalkers etc about 24 hours ago from im
Dayngr @SilverNeurotic I'm not being retorical. about 24 hours ago from im in reply to SilverNeurotic
Dayngr @Zemote Even tho abuse and harassment is against their TOS about 24 hours ago from im in reply to zemote
Dayngr @zemote How do I think twitter isn't enforcing their tos agreement. @Ev says they like to err on the side of freedom of speech. about 24 hours ago from im in reply to zemote
Dayngr It certainly would be open for a federal investigation since most conversations cross state lines. about 24 hours ago from im
Dayngr Put twitter at risk for a FCC investigation ? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm about 24 hours ago from im
Dayngr Since so much of the twitter action takes place via mobile phones would someone harassing you using twitter's service about 24 hours ago from twhirl
Dayngr I'm wondering a little about twitters stance on not enforcing their Terms of Service agreement - especially since they are looking for VCs about 24 hours ago from im
There is definately more to come from me on this topic.
Dished out by Dayngr at
12:38 AM
17 comment(s):
I can only restate what I've mentioned over on my blog -
Twitter states QUITE CLEARLY right after the Basic Terms that “Violation of any of these agreements WILL RESULT in the termination of your Twitter.com account.” Not MAY, but an emphatic WILL. It is not until, nestled into the General Terms, that Twitter states it MAY.
The Basic Terms are the conditions for your use of their service. Those are the “Twitter Rules” if you will.
Twitter cannot have it both ways. Either it WILL do something, as I read for violations of the Basic Terms or it won’t.
I'm with you 100% in this. Its an issue of protecting the users.
By
wiredpig, at
April 30, 2008 11:21 PM
I hope this is not something that I ever have to deal with first hand but it is definitely something that is good to be aware of. As a woman trying to build an online presence I can see the danger of certain types of individuals choosing to take advantage of that presence in harmful way. I do hope that Twitter will change their stance on this topic. It would be a shame for a useful networking tool to become an unsafe place to participate.
By
Daisy Olsen, at
April 30, 2008 11:33 PM
Some thoughts I'm having on the situation.
1. I'm thinking that perhaps there's a law that states that anytime a web application such as Twitter is created, they are required to post a predetermined TOS. It would be interesting to look into that. If that's the case, it explains why Twitter doesn't care about the situation. They only posted the TOS because they legally HAD to-but they have no legal obligation to actually follow them themselves.
2. It also seems that certain people who moderate a social network, whether is Myspace, Facebook or Twitter that has hundreds of thousands of profiles-or even just a message board with only a 100 or so active profiles...only care if the situation affects them personally. I've been in that situation before at a message board. If that same person was harassing Twitter and libeling Twitter's name then you'd be damned sure Twitter would have had his account deleted and banned. But because it was an organization they cared nothing about...why should they care? It's a minor problem to them.
By
~*SilverNeurotic*~, at
April 30, 2008 11:34 PM
@purplecar setup a stalker / spammer twitter user for tracking these sorts of people - I've sent her a DM asking if it is still in operation.
By
Martin English, at
May 01, 2008 12:01 AM
I think people are either part of the solution or part of the problem. The guy perpetrating the abuse has over 900 followers. Who are these people and why do they this is ok for someone to attack, harass and abuse users?
By
Dayngr, at
May 01, 2008 12:04 AM
The user I referred to earlier is @OddFollow for reporting any oddities and strangeness to the twitter community. Just a heads up to anyone else who wants to know.
By
Martin English, at
May 01, 2008 12:16 AM
I guess Twitter management has this TOS there for 'possible' action if things are out of their control. They won't enforce the TOS very strictly now probably because:
1. they are still growing.
Maintaining a growth rate for a site like Twitter is so important.
2. out of resources.
Not enough hands to monitor the conversations or account activities, etc.
Jianjun
By
Jianjun, at
May 01, 2008 1:29 AM
It's true that twitter does nothing for this sort of thing. The only way to avoid this is to make your timeline private which is really just a pain in the ass.
By
Jack Lhasa, at
May 01, 2008 1:37 AM
JJ,
All very possible but still no excuse really.
By
Dayngr, at
May 01, 2008 1:38 AM
Jack,
Protecting your tweets only means that someone can't see your timeline. That doesn't mean they will stop posting libelous or harassing statements about you. Plus, they can still see who you are following and follow them too. A little creepy.
By
Dayngr, at
May 01, 2008 1:39 AM
Though I realize that Twitter has a block button perhaps a better idea would be to have a “flag account button”. If enough users flagged an account the account could go into a suspended mode forcing the user to contact Twitter to have the account reviewed and reactivated. This would provide Twitter the opportunity to immediately halt abuse and afford them the opportunity to review accounts on a case by case basis.
Remember, blocking removes that users from your Twitter stream but it doesn’t prevent the user from visiting your profile and viewing your timeline. It also doesn’t prevent the user from seeing who you are following and following the same people which means the people you’re associated with can also be harassed for knowing you. The only other option Twitter gives us right now is protecting our tweets and that isn’t the best option for a social networking site or for companies/people interested in using Twitter as a social networking tool.
By
Dayngr, at
May 01, 2008 1:43 AM
I first heard about this guy a few days ago from a reply that @foulbastard posted to him & I thought it was just that account alone he was ranting on, until today when I saw the faves under @mailourmilitary and was surprised to see MULTIPLE accounts from this same guy making harassing statements over and over again. its one thing to have "free speech" and voice your opinion but to go to those lengths is just plain harassment. not to mention it could be considered libel.
Don't get me wrong, I love Twitter, but It seems twitter is unconcerned with the TOS since it clearly states spamming will result in deletion of your account when we all know the spamming problem is HUGE. not to mention, like the last commenter pointed out, the guy who's going around adding women and tricking them into following links to show off his junk. why isn't that considered harassment?
although I wonder how Twitter could possibly enforce these sorts of issues. Couldn't the person simply create another account regardless of how many get blocked/deleted (which seems to be a problem in this case) ? spammers aren't usually so persistent as to go through the trouble of creating new accounts if they get blocked but if its truly harassment, these people will go to any lengths it seems.
I really hope twitter finds a solution to this problem, and quickly, since it is our right as twitter users to NOT have to endure this kind of abuse
By
Maggie, at
May 01, 2008 2:13 AM
Actually I don't think the TOS statements you references ar contrary. One states harassment isn't allowed but if it happens they are not obligated to removed the statements only deal with the offending account. While you may not agree that is in fact what it says and to which you agreed. You could take this approach to nearly any contract from everything from Cable TV to wireless service. They all state you can't sue them, we of course know that's not true. Many contracts even state an arbitrator must be used to settle the disagreement and their decision is final. (yea right) I did one demand arbitation for a bill dispute, within a day of that letter I was being called and the dispute was resolved to my satisfaction.
By
krazykritter, at
May 01, 2008 4:56 PM
As promised, here's my blog about the incident: http://silverneurotic.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/social-networks-terms-of-services-and-you/
By
~*SilverNeurotic*~, at
May 01, 2008 5:47 PM
Terms of Service are written to protect the company who has them. They are not a promise to the users. Even if it says "will be terminated" it does not obligate the service provider to do so, it only provides them backing if they do terminate the account.
That said, I do find it disappointing that they would claim that they "can do nothing about it." If they have blocked other users from access then they can, and with the TOS they can do so and have legal backing.
If their thought is that the person can just go around and create another account, that may be true, but does not mean they shouldn't remove/block the account if there are grounds for doing so.
By
Goldie Katsu, at
May 01, 2008 11:12 PM
I can understand that the internet might be a rough place sometimes, and there's bound to be unpleasant comments from some people.
But this goes beyond unpleasant, into the realm of abuse and--frankly--scary behavior. I definitely agree that Twitter should enforce their terms of service in this case. Will it solve the problem? Possibly not, but the rule enforcement will at least set a precedent.
By
mousewords, at
May 03, 2008 7:32 PM
Thank you for stopping by- NO Mr. Rogers was not a marine sniper or in the military - he was a presbyterian minister and well Mr. Rogers. (so there you have it) I am twitter illiterate myself and only use it to twit blog readers. I think it is odd when I get someone following me on Twitter actually. My kids don't even car what I am up to- why would someone on the internet. Thanks again-see you around.
By
Michelle Gartner, at
May 04, 2008 12:49 AM
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